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I'm missing the point - paldo 1.22
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paldo 1.22
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 I'm missing the point - paldo 1.22
Posts: 73
Registered: 2009-07-15
I'm happy to know about paldo 1.22 release. I'm aware this is a hard critic. But I've to overcome it.

I really do not know what is the the point of Paldo developers to keep this distro alive.

You do not give any feed back to new or old users. For that reason, the community here is long lost.

You may like Paldo. I do like it too. Or did I did?

Mono has still an undesirable presence in Paldo. Nothing has been done to replace it.

What is your (the developers) point about keeping alive and giving public disclosed new release distros, if it seems it's only purpose, is to be be used by it's owner unique developers utilization?

No offense intended, an explanation would be very much appreciated.
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Created: 2010-05-21 22:13
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 Re: I'm missing the point - paldo 1.22
Senior Mitglied
Posts: 216
Registered: 2008-07-04

I think some things need to be clarified in here.

Paldo is a really small distribution. That is not the problem, the problem I see is that this small community that uses paldo is not actually the most unified. For that reason, things move a little slower in here.

Since there only a few people in here, then we don't have a quality assurance team, therefore, little bugs appears. For this same reason, lack of people, the documentation is not the greatest, also the repository is small.

But because the packages in paldo are almost never patched, then we have a very solid basis, so as you see it's been a long long long time since no bug like application crashing or something is posted in here on the forums. We see posts like I can't use samba because it was disabled on the compilation, but not nautilus keeps crashing every 10 minutes.

Another thing is: our forums are our community heart. We don't have a very populated IRC, neither a bug tracking system.

Concerning Mono. The problem with mono is just criticism at once. Remember prejudice is a crime. But let me try to explain that the alternative to mono for gnome is vala, and Juerg is one of the developers of vala. So as you will see, vala is always very updated and almost paldo is the first to receive its updates. The problem is porting upkg from mono to vala is not easy, believe I tried, and juerg and rafaelle are too busy to do that job.

Now let me try to explain to you how upkg really works. Upkg works with 2 languages: mono and bash.
Who does the whole process of installation, remotion, upgrade is bash. So upkg is bash package system. But making bash do the trick of reading the xml specs is neither easy, nor fast, for that reason upkg uses mono code to process the xml. So when you trigger upkg you will see 2 phases, the first phase finishes when you see "Writing Script.", that was mono job, from there on its bash working.

Another thing that paldo relies on bash is the init scripts... which are all written in bash. For that reason you will see that if you try to do upkg-remove bash the output will be "Cowardly Refusing" (or something like that. because if you do so... paldo will completly crash (no recovery). But if you try upkg-remove mono you will see that it will remove (you'll get no upkg anymore so don't do that). This is all to prove you, mono means almost nothing to upkg.

I don't think that paldo is a distribution to please only the developer use, because if it were my bug tracks on problems on polkit wouldn't be listened right away.

1.22 marks de presence of gnome 2.30. But probably, from next thursday, you will see that 1.22 will no longer be available. That's because the stable livecd is rebuild with the updates every week. Therefore the naming 1.22 is just a marketing strategy, because some people needs to see a release to think the distribution is active. This can be proven by gentoo which didn't had the releases 2008.1, 2009.0. So between this one year of no release, people thought it was dead, but actualy the repositories were updated daily and they had a big increase on the number of packages.

Now please understand that paldo is one of the most rolling release distribution ever. You don't download a release that you keep upgrading forever, you download a snapshot of the repository and keep updates in track.

Now the case of the feedback. I'm not a developer but I'm always here trying to help everyone, and also I never saw anyone not being responded. Ok, sometimes it might take longer, but that's because the developers are busy, and so the rest of the community, and since we are small, the odds that we might all be busy at once is bigger.

Let me give you another example. The only feedback from the developers of gentoo, mandriva, opensuse, fedora, ubuntu, is done through their newsletter or planet. We have neither .

Now let me tell you the best of paldo to prove you that the devels do care about the users. This is the only distro that gives you weekly compiled snapshot of blender SVN and gimp-devel. And as I see on these couple of years that I use paldo... the users seems to be more connected to graphics (And so am I).

Right now we have 2 main active developers (as far as I know): ritchy and juergbi . Now, other distributions have more then 30 (not counting the responsibles for the forums).

Now tell us, what do you miss so much from paldo community to be that critic? I'll be glad to try to feedback your questions.

I'm certain that noone would take your post as an offense. I'm actually happy to see your critic, because just the fact that you are in here concerned with paldo, is the reason for us to be once more a community.

A last note: Please remember that here on this forum you can post your requests and the reasons for it to be implemented. I'm also certain that the developers won't be dismissing if you ever wish to maintain a package on the repository.

Remember, as I see: "we are small, and might be having some "voice problem", but we are still alive and here to improve our desktop experience, because your problems should be everyone's problems, since a bug has no prejudice and happens to all of us."

:: Sorry for the long post ::
OSs: Paldo-testing x86_64 :: HP Pavilion dv9680ez
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Created: 2010-05-22 21:23
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  a word or appreciation
Junior Mitglied
Posts: 4
Registered: 2010-05-25
Hi, to all.

Paldo is, after TinyCore, my fastest distro running on a 256 MB VBOX virtual machine, hosted by a pentium M 1GB RAM XP Pro machine. It boots fast, it installs fast (but after Gparting, it took me some minutes to understand that I should "edit" again),it runs fast, provided I use the applications in a clever way. And it logs out fast. Of course, I hate the cli upkg, because is confusing and the documentation still needs to improve in some basic functions. But then, what I would like is to have an even faster paldo.
Oh, just keep the "Announcement" section updated. Otherwise we'll think this is an abandoned home.

My congratulations for the distro.

Mean PT
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Created: 2010-05-25 10:35
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 Re: I'm missing the point - paldo 1.22
Senior Mitglied
Posts: 216
Registered: 2008-07-04
Hi meanpt,

I do understand the cli upkg is not appreciated by most of the users. But I think it could be easily got by a better documentation. The truth is upkg is a very simple package manager (not the code but the concept). I think we need a documentation that not only shows how to install or remove, but also what upkg does to do that install or remove.

There were once an idea of making a packagekit backend for upkg, but I think it can be too problematic since PackageKit is not very familiar with the hybrid idea so it would kill the possibilite to compile instead of installing a binary, and, on my perspective, it is a bad choice for us.

I'm glad you like paldo. I'm also glad to hear that on your system it is as fast as TinyCore, even though paldo provides you a much more complete system over what TinyCore offers.
OSs: Paldo-testing x86_64 :: HP Pavilion dv9680ez
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Created: 2010-05-25 14:26 | Modified: 2010-05-25 14:30 by diogo
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